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Ron Miller of Pursuit Physical Therapy, a cash-based PT practice in Orlando FL, joined me for a great interview about his new practice.
Ron was one of the first to reach out and really start interacting with me online after I started this website. Then about a year ago he gave me the exciting news he was making the leap into private practice, and that his practice would be 100% cash-based! So I’m really pumped to have him on as the first guest of the Cash-Based Practice Podcast. He started his practice with zero physician relationships/referrals and zero patients following him from any other practices, but he was profitable within three months!
I learned a great deal from Ron in this interview and I’m confident you will too.
More specifically, we discuss these cash-practice topics:
- The details of a very interesting and unique payment/pricing model that Ron has developed (it’s not what you might expect)
- Important lessons Ron has learned in his first year as a cash-based practice owner.
- The importance of “learning to sell,” and how he sells $1500 treatment packages to new patients (hint: it’s not about selling physical therapy, it’s about selling something else).
- The most effective ways he has attracted cash-pay patients to his clinic, and the marketing methods he has used to start his practice from scratch with zero physician relationships/referrals or patient caseload.
Resources and Links mentioned in this episode:
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Click to Tweet: New Cash-Practice Owner, Ron Miller, profitable in 3 months and selling $1500 treatment packages. Here’s how: http://bit.ly/1dRYftg
Boy, I need to get a mic! ha ha. That is breaking up a lot. Thanks again Jarod! Hope this helps others. Feel free to contact me with any questions or concerns
Ha! don’t worry about it… The content was golden! Thanks again for your time and insights
I am in the process of transitioning from insurance to cash and have a couple of questions. I like the idea of selling a package, but in order to break down the revenue per visit I need some more info. How long does he spend with his patient’s, I like spending one hour one-on-one. Does he have a cap on the visits per package? And does he sell a package per patient or per condition that he is treating. Like you Dr. Carter I live in Texas, not direct access yet.
Hi Nancy,
I’ll let Ron answer the questions but I’m pretty sure I asked some of the same things about capping visits per package in the interview.
Best of luck with your transition! Maybe I can interview you for the show and how the process is going for you?
Jarod
I 100% identify with the challenge of asking for the money that we know our services are worth! Similar to Ron, I am encouraging packages when appropriate for the individuals diagnosis, goals, etc. One of my mentors simply shared ‘different rates for different levels of commitment’ with package titles that reflect an individuals level of commitment (http://www.motiontherapy.net/pricing-packages/). This packaging approach has been pushing me to have the difficult conversation about money and I am learning how to position, package and communicate the value (results) of services more effectively. Thank you for sharing Ron and Jarod!
Well done, Heidi. You’re very welcome!
I am very interested to listen to this podcast. My wife and myself are in the transition from in network since 10/2013.
Thanks once again for this info and strong network to both Jarod and Ron.
You’re very welcome, Joseph
Nancy,
I do not worry about revenue per visit. I focus on revenue per week. I try to stay away from per session stuff because I do not feel it will get me to where I want. Each package is essentially a treatment plan per diagnosis, not per patient. I have not put a cap on visits yet (everyone continues to mention this) but maybe I will. Remember a cash based system will weed out many of the patients that want to exercise, and these patients will be focused on one thing, getting better. and getting better faster. these are people who are not going to want to stay around because they want to get back to their activity. So only a complex diagnosis will take 15-20 visits otherwise it should be 12 or less. Hope this helps and feel free to ask questions.
Ron,
Thank you for this information. As you can see I have some mind set changing to do. I treat a lot of complex and chronic pain that is why I feel that I need to cap the visits, or I would be treating them for free. I would love to treat more acute and sports injuries it is hard without direct access in Texas and with a lot of POPs in my area. This isn’t going to stop me from pursuing my dream of a cash practice. Nobody in my area is a manual therapist and this has set me apart from all the other clinics. Insurance is wearing me out, just trying to get my ducks in a row the best I can so I can go CASH.
So, Nancy, in your niche of chronic pain patients, doing these type of treatment packages may not be the best approach without a cap to visit amounts. You may be better off with a pay-per-session model. There are many ways to skin this cat 🙂
Hi Jarod and Ron…great podcast! Thanks for all the ideas. One thing I’m confused about with offering packages is how to give the patients insurance forms to submit to the insurance. I currently give a bill with CPT codes listed with separate charges that add up to my total hourly fee for private pay patients. But for example if one patient pays $1500 for 10 sessions and another pays $1500 for 9 sessions, how do you make the pricing consistent for insurance submission? Is it legal to charge different fees per visit to different patients? Thanks for all the information, I really appreciate all the work you have done to encourage PTs to move toward cash based practices!
Use one set fee schedule for all visits (that adds up to $150 for the session), but for those who are paying less because they purchase a package, you simply add a line underneath the subtotal called “provider discount” and subtract the discounted amount to get the total. This way, you are not charging different rates to different patients, you are simply giving a provider discount for those willing to pay for multiple treatments up front.
Hi Jarod,
Like Christine, I provide an invoice (Superbill) for all of my patients, and most of them submit to insurance for reimbursement. The rules about charging the same rate for all patients per visit are what has kept me from selling “discounted” packages of physical therapy. I know that all sorts of rules apply when a discount is offered, such as when the patient can come back in next for treatment and other things…
Can you elaborate on the “provider discount” and how to do that without getting in trouble?
I found this post from Clinicient, but it’s 2 years old:
http://bit.ly/PfWLn3
Any info appreciated,
Ann
Hey Ann,
In your situation and mine, being 100% out of network, I believe we have less to worry about in this area. Where I have heard there are rules and issues that practices can run into, generally is in the arena of giving discounts to those willing to pay cash and having the practice forgo billing the patient’s insurance. With that said, every state is different and perhaps your area has laws that would prevent you from giving discounts to different people even though you are not under contract with any federal or private payers.
From my research, the most important thing is that you have one set fee schedule, and that discounts given from that fee schedule need to be consistent. For example, if you provide a discount to those in a certain athletic group or occupation, the discount needs to be the same among all members of those groups. I’ve never had any issues with this so far, but that does not mean it would be clear and legal for anyone else to do without confirming with an attorney.
Jarod